Just Like Nana

Malinda DeMercurio

• Amie Penny Sayler • Episode 23

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In this episode of Just Like Nana, host Amie (Elizabeth) Penny Sayler is joined by Malinda DeMercurio, an acupuncturist and Sangoma, to explore how energy medicine, shamanic traditions, and ancestral healing can guide you back to your heart.


Together they discuss how to begin working with your ancestors, trusting your intuition as it draws you to specific healing modalities, and more.


About Malinda

Malinda DeMercurio is a licensed acupuncturist in New York, Connecticut, and Wisconsin, a certified instinctive meditation teacher, a Reiki master, and an initiated Sangoma, which is a traditional healer from the Zulu lineage of South Africa. She integrates acupuncture, meditation, energy medicine, and ancestral healing to help individuals restore health, reconnect with their spiritual inheritance and step into greater sovereignty.



In This Episode, You’ll Learn:

  • Awaken Your Ancestral Qi: Recognize that you carry the energy, strength, and life force of those who came before you in your very DNA. True vitality comes from learning to unblock and honor this spiritual inheritance.
  • Listen to the Call of the Grandmothers: Reconnecting with the wisdom of the grandmothers allows us to ground ourselves in fierce, nurturing energy and find our way back to the heart.
  • Trust Your Intuitive Memory: Pay attention to the sudden signs, repeating patterns, or subtle inner pulls that draw you toward specific healing modalities like acupuncture, massage, or ritual work. Your ancestors often communicate through these intuitive nudges.
  • The Power of Ritual Prescription: Move your healing beyond mental processing by engaging in physical rituals. Honoring family stories and ancestral spirits through intentional acts helps metabolize stored emotional grief.
  • Fierce Self-Care Filters Outward: True matriarchal energy reminds us that taking care of ourselves is not selfish; it gives us the vital wherewithal to fiercely love, protect, and offer deep healing to our families and communities.



Resources Mentioned

Connect with Malinda DeMercurio

Dragon Springs Wellness: https://dragonspringswellness.com/

 90-Day Ancestral Healing & Sovereignty Reset: https://dragonspringswellness.com/programs-classes-and-events


Connect with the Show

  • Website: justlikenana.com
  • Share Your Story: If you have a family story or trauma you’re exploring, reach out via our website for a chance to be interviewed.

Connect with Just Like Nana's Website.

A proud member of the Feminist Podcasters Collective.

Theme music by Carter Penny.

Amie Penny Sayler:

Welcome to Just Like Nana. I am your host, Amie Penny Sayler. I'm excited to have you here with us today. I want to invite you, if you have a family story that you would like to share, to please visit www.justlikenana.com. There's a place to submit your story. I would love to talk with you on the podcast. I will tell you that I've had the experience of talking with people out in the community, or even friends, and they're telling me these incredible stories because of this podcast, and when I say to someone, and this has been always women, when I say that's amazing, and I would love to talk with you on my podcast, the answer is invariably, oh no, like that's not that interesting, or that wouldn't help anyone understand their own family, or that sort of reaction, and it's just so universal that I want to make sure that I'm extending a special invitation to please submit your family story, because I would love to talk with you on Just Like Nana. Today's guest is Malinda De Mercurio. She's awesome. She is a licensed acupuncturist in New York, Connecticut, and Wisconsin, a certified instinctive meditation teacher, a Reiki master, and an initiated Sangoma, which is a traditional healer from the Zulu lineage of South Africa. She integrates acupuncture, meditation, energy medicine, and ancestral healing to help individuals restore health, reconnect with their spiritual inheritance and step into greater sovereignty. In addition to her clinical practice, Malinda offers a transformative 90 day ancestral healing and sovereignty reset. Welcome to Just Like Nana. Malinda, thrilled to have you here today.

Malinda DeMercurio:

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Amie Penny Sayler:

Absolutely, so we sometimes like to start. If you have a favorite or a powerful memory of a grandmother, if you want to share that, and also what you called her.

Malinda DeMercurio:

So both my grandmothers were in my life and played a pretty important part in my life. I called them Grandma, and I spent a lot of time with them growing up because my parents split up when I was about three or four, so usually summers and you know, after school and things of that nature, I would be at my grandmother's house. Now, my grandmother, Mary, who's my mother's mom. What I wanted to share, I guess, is a little bit about what I really got from each of my grandmothers, because they had such an influence on me, and to sum up, my grandmother, Mary, because when I was very young, and we moved back to Wisconsin, that's where my mother's from, we stayed with her, and so at that point it was really important to have this consistency, because we had just moved from New Jersey, and I was very young, didn't quite understand exactly what was going on, but I just remember always being with my grandmother and feeling so loved and so cared for, and the consistency and devotion I feel she showed towards me just always made me feel so safe being with her, and so I remember her being that pillar for me in my early years, and I feel that that informed how I actually care for my patients and care for people who come to me. I feel like I got a lot of that from her, because she just was very encouraging and supportive never seemed to mind if I had a million questions or wanted to help her cook, help her clean, whatever the case was, and so I feel that that was something that I took with me, and that I really didn't realize it till years later of how that influenced me and informed how I am, even with friends and family, this overwhelming love I have for people, and how I want to show that and care for them.

Amie Penny Sayler:

Is she still here?

Malinda DeMercurio:

She's not. She passed away back in 2011

Amie Penny Sayler:

Do you still feel that love from her?

Malinda DeMercurio:

I do. It's interesting, because when my mother and I, when we speak about, like, my grandma, my. There's very intuitive as well, and so when she, she tells me things like whenever she would be driving in the car, and she'll pray to my grandma and ask her for, you know, guidance, or just, you know, protect, she always asks that for us, her daughters, my sister and I, or if she's just feeling like heavy hearted and she's telling her mother a prayer or something and asking for guidance, she said, she always, when she turns the radio on, it'll be that song by The Beatles, Let It Be, because the phrase 'Mother Mary comes to me in times of trouble.' And so that phrase, that song has now become sort of like, whenever we hear it, like, 'Oh, Grandma Mary's here,' or 'She's watching over us.'

Amie Penny Sayler:

That's so beautiful, and just what a beautiful story of everything you would want a grandmother to encapsulate and embody and give to a granddaughter. Please tell us about your father's mother.

Malinda DeMercurio:

So, my grandma, Jenny, she was an immigrant. She came over from Italy in, I think, it was 1928 so it was a year before the Great Depression. She was a young woman. She was probably in her late teens or early 20s, and she came over with her father on a boat through Ellis Island, and she didn't know the language, didn't have a job lined up. They just came with that promise of a better life, that they were going to find work and be able to bring the rest of the family over. She came from a very large family, and what I got from her, because I did spend all my summers with her, and even when I got older, I lived with her for a while, and the thing about my grandma, Jenny, is that she endured a lot of hardship and a lot of challenges throughout her life, but one thing that she always kept with her was her sense of humor, and that is something that I can remember sitting around laughing with her at the kitchen table, her telling me just stories about like when she was younger, or just this ability to laugh, even though there was a lot of challenges that she had to go through, and then what it felt like for her to have to leave her, the only home she knew, come to a whole new country, and and forge a new life, and so, and she did. She built a family, you know, a very large family, but that sense of humor, and actually that humor, you see it all through that line of my family, that side of my family. We all laugh when we get together. My father was the example of, like, the life of the party, you know, so I feel like she really passed that on, that since, and she had it up until she died. I mean, she was 92 when she passed.

Amie Penny Sayler:

Now I'm understanding DeMercurio, and my great grandmother was from Italy, and came here from Italy, and she went by Jenny, and her full name was Gienoveffa. Did your grandmother have a full name, or was Jenny short for something?

Malinda DeMercurio:

It was short for something. Giovanna was her name.

Amie Penny Sayler:

Oh, beautiful.

Malinda DeMercurio:

Yeah, but because you know, again, being in America, they wanted to assimilate in some ways, so they called it easier, probably to pronounce. She went by Jenny, but Giovanna, I always thought that was so beautiful.

Amie Penny Sayler:

I want to just take one moment and just honor both of those grandmas, Grandma Mary, Grandma Jenny. Those were such beautiful stories, and just how loved, embraced, accepted, you know, how much time you got to spend with them is really special, and doesn't always happen for everyone, especially from both sides of the family. So, just what a wonderful tribute to both of them to be so dedicated to their family and their granddaughter, you I would love to talk about your work. You have this very unique lens, because you have the acupuncturist, and then you also just completed training in South Africa as a Sangoma, and in my mind those are sort of separate, but I'm guessing you kind of integrate what you're doing, so if you can just sort of address your work, how do you define ancestral trauma, and how does ancestral trauma show up in your work?

Malinda DeMercurio:

Sure, so I got into acupuncture and East Asian medicine. Well, when I first discovered it, I was in my 20s, and I was actually receiving acupuncture, and I just thought, "Wow, this is an incredible healing modality, and I was fascinated by it, and I kept asking questions every time I would go. And one day, it just dawned on me that, "Oh, this is what you're meant to be doing. So I actually got into Chinese medicine and acupuncture early on. It took me about 10 years before I actually went to school for it, but I knew that's what I'm doing now. At the same time, I was reading and learning about shamanism, and was fascinated by that. I started reading stories around mainly ayahuasqueros down in Peru using plant medicine, and I just thought, "Wow, this is amazing. And interestingly enough, the woman I was seeing for acupuncture at the time, I remember going to her and saying, I'm reading this great book called Amazon Magic, basically about the shaman and his life, and she went, Oh, is that the book by Jaya Bear? And I said, Yeah, have you read that? And she goes, No, I went to Peru with her, and I worked with that shaman, and I was like, ding, ding, ding, ding, like this, like any more signs that were coming through that, like, this is the woman that's actually putting you on the path towards acupuncture, and she also had this experience with shamanism, so I feel that early on in my life those streams or those modalities were going to merge, regardless of how I knew that was going to look, so fast forward years, and going through school, so I began a practice, and I really practiced acupuncture for a long time. In particular, I do mostly a Japanese form, so it's a much more hands-on, palpation-based form of acupuncture. So it's interesting when I look back, I'm like, oh, all of these things were already present, were already there, and I always had this ability to be quite intuitive when I worked with people, and basically it just, the evolution of my own work and the people I met along the way brought me one day to South Africa. Now, my very dear friend, who was leading this retreat, is a Sangoma, and I knew a little bit of that work from her, but I didn't know a lot about it, and so when I was there in South Africa, I received a divination, and in that divination, it was saying I was being called to walk this path and to become a Sangoma, so that's what I've really been undergoing, you know, for the last seven years now that that part of the process has been completed. What I'm realizing in my work is that there's been pieces of all of this ancestral medicine weaving through my life and the way I work with people for a very long time, but now I have a lot of the deeper understanding of how to integrate it and work with people at different levels, depending on what it is they want to focus on. So, I find it that if someone's coming to me for acupuncture, which most people know me for, and that's what's really bringing them in, they they'll talk to me about what's going on, but if I start to get the sensations around that, oh, there's something else happening here that's going to inform me, and then either we have a deeper discussion around if something more is needed in terms of ancestral work, or is it that maybe that's not where they're at yet, and so then there's things within just the acupuncture I can do to start to assist with ancestral healing.

Amie Penny Sayler:

There is so much there, and

Malinda DeMercurio:

yeah,

Amie Penny Sayler:

how cool that you can now look back and kind of see both paths merging. Let's start with acupuncture. If you can sort of explain for the listener who's not experienced with acupuncture, so I will tell you, my lay, I have had acupuncture many times. My layperson's uneducated, uninformed view of acupuncture is I feel that it moves energy through my body,

Malinda DeMercurio:

correct? Is

Amie Penny Sayler:

how it feels to me. But I would love to understand from you, when someone's presenting for acupuncture, what you're looking for, working on, and then sort of how the acupuncture helps them as a healing modality.

Malinda DeMercurio:

So, there's something called qi, which can be translated loosely as being vital life force energy, and there's different forms of qi that a person has. One of them actually is ancestral qi, and that's what we inherit from our parents at conception, and so in turn we're also inheriting the energy from all our ancestors, and that can show up beyond just like hair color, eye color, facial features, that can be mental health issues, that can also be behavioral patterns, and based on whatever the life choices were that those ancestors made, and they can be passed on through that energy into the person who's before me. So, when someone's coming to me, yes, they may not be saying, "Oh, sign me up for the ancestral part, but I will start to look at on their intake the family medical history that I'll be able to say, oh, there's some patterns I'm starting to see, the grandparents, the parents, the siblings, and is there a particular pattern that, like with mental health, or am I seeing a lot of cardiovascular issues, am I seeing a lot of pulmonary issues? So, when someone's coming to me for that, we, we look at what their main complaint is, and then we also, I'm kind of taking in all this other information. Ultimately, when I'm using the needles, then I'm going to be using them to help to move the qi, but also end the blood, the circulation of blood. But we're also, for me, I'm looking at what is the constitutional issue, because I'm. Not looking to put a band aid and just clear the symptoms, because those symptoms can come back, so we have to sometimes go a little deeper and look at what is the root issue. Now, this person may not be having cardiovascular problems, but it's riddled in the family history, so that tells me I'm going to still support the cardiovascular system as part of their constitutional treatment, so that we can help that energy, because ancestrally it's something that's inherited and there's something that might have been out of alignment. So, if we can support that with certain points, I'm going to do that as well as treat whatever the main issue is that they have so ultimately we are moving qi and blood, but depending on the intention of the practitioner, and based on all of my training, I'm also bringing in a lot of other analyzation and information that's going to decide how I treat them, so that when they walk out they feel amazing, they're going to feel grounded, they're going to feel much more relaxed, they're going to feel rejuvenated, and that's what the goal we want to start to get them to feel good in their body

Amie Penny Sayler:

is that qi, and I mean, I know I'm asking big broad questions that get studied for years, so I appreciate that, is the qi like, are there channels through your body through which that qi moves,

Malinda DeMercurio:

yes,

Amie Penny Sayler:

and sometimes get sort of stagnant,

Malinda DeMercurio:

yeah. So, in acupuncture, there's 12 main meridians that the acupuncture points fall upon, and what that means is that these meridians act sort of like waterways, I guess you could look at it like streams of water, and they all interconnect in some way at some point in the body, some of this is deeper within the organs, some is a little more surface level in the tissue, but where the main meridians are, it's really, and where the acupuncture points fall on those meridians, that's where we can access the qi the most readily and easily with a needle, so there can be stagnation, or we could have depletion in some of these channels, and we have to figure out, oh, what's causing that, and based on the person's symptoms, or what the condition is, you know, that will inform us, but ultimately we're looking at right, we want the smooth free flow of energy through the channels and circulating, you know, the blood circulating well within the body, because once you do that, a lot of times the body, because it has such a deep intelligence, will start to go back into regulation and take care of itself.

Amie Penny Sayler:

And then, how does the ancestral piece enter into all of this, both through acupuncture and then through your work as a sankoma.

Malinda DeMercurio:

Yeah, so the well, like I said earlier, you know, there's things I'm going to look at on the intake form, but in order to see where there are ancestral patterns and what the ancestral qi is like, but there are actual points. Most of the points in acupuncture have multiple functions, so depending on how you want to use that point is going to affect the treatment. So, sometimes points may be used that are for more spiritual issues or emotional issues, and instead of physical ones, there are points that actually can help with ancestral issues. So, for instance, there is a point, and it's a point that is used. It's been used for 1000s of years clinically. It's a very commonly used point on the liver channel, and that point is also known to help break through very long, deeply held patterns and habits that the either person hasn't been able to break, or if there's been a long history in the lineage of this pattern existing, like can be traced back or goes back quite far, that I will use that with that intention to start to help break up where that deeply ingrained stagnation is being held, so again it depends. We're taught in school that the practitioners qi, and our intention is just as important in the treatment as the points we're using. So my understanding of what I'm using and what those points can do is going to have a greater effect than just putting in points blindly, or just saying, "Here's the prescription, and then walking out of the room.

Amie Penny Sayler:

Yeah, wow. Now I feel like this is a little bit of inside baseball of how do you kind of prepare your own qi, or get yourself in a place of, okay, I'm cared for, so now I'm ready to offer healing.

Malinda DeMercurio:

It's a great question, and it's important. So, as a practitioner, and even more so since I've been trained as a Sangoma, I like to call it spiritual hygiene has gotten much better. And what I mean by that is that taking care of myself in ways that they sound simple, and it's things. That I tell my patients a lot, but it really does make a big difference. And one of the things is your sleep, sleep hygiene - it's a big one. If I don't get enough rest, then I know that's going to impact me in treatment, and it's going to help my energy if I get enough rest to feel grounded and good in my body. I also do a lot of cleansing rituals, so in other words, I use water a lot in terms of clearing energetic residue, so to speak, because sometimes as a practitioner, when you're dealing with heavy emotions or releases that people might be having, or if they're going through a trying illness or something that's going on in the family, and that comes out in the treatment room, I want to make sure that I'm clearing that off at the end of the day, so I might go for a walk outside in nature. I like to spend time in my garden, or I will do some type of water cleansing, whether it's a bath, shower, or a steam. Sometimes I use herbs, essential oils. I'm very much incorporating, you know, nature-based tools, so to speak, and also making sure I'm drinking enough water. That's also a big one, but those are some of the things that I do, just sort of on a daily or weekly basis. I also make sure that I have my own care, so people, my practitioners, I can go to to get self care, because that's important as well. And then I do my, my daily prayers at my altar to my ancestors, and I really speak to them about, you know, if this this is my work, this is the path you want me to be on, then I'm asking for that support as well, that they ensure that everyone that comes to me is getting exactly the care they need, you know, to guide me if I need to change anything or add anything, but that ultimately the goal is that the person walks out feeling better than when they came in, and so those are some of the spiritual and things that I do to help keep my energy clear.

Amie Penny Sayler:

That is great, and it is amazing, those simple. I'm calling it simple, but the sleep, the water, the nature, you know, yeah.

Malinda DeMercurio:

Because in today's world, it's very easy for people to - they're doing so many things. There's so much people are managing, like multitasking to the nth degree. I mean, they might still have their hobbies and friends, but even that can get very busy, right? Where people are just always going, and then there's an exhaustion that sets in. So it's like having these simple moments of quiet, or a little solitude, or just to be with yourself, even if it's 15 minutes. It's a great reset, and it's very doable, I think, for most people, I

Amie Penny Sayler:

I would love to talk a little bit more about your work as a Sangoma.

Malinda DeMercurio:

Sure,

Amie Penny Sayler:

can you start to talk about this? Is what it means for accessing ancestors? I think people would love to hear about that.

Malinda DeMercurio:

So, Sangoma is the title, it's the traditional healer. The path itself is called Ngoma, and it means the way of the drum, and this is an ancient shamanic tradition that comes from the Zulu Nation. And so, South Africa is one of the home places of it, it is a calling, meaning that one doesn't just say I'm going to be a Sangoma, it has to be divined out, there has to be a process to determine if this is in fact your path or your calling, and then once that is shown, you do have a choice if you want to do it or not, however, in most shamanic traditions, not taking the call leads usually not to great things, so at some point you're going to probably need to go down that path, because it's, it's, it's a calling, it's for you, but it's also because your ancestors are calling you, so it means that you stepped up, that in this generation you were the one that came forward and agreed prior to coming here that okay, I'm going to do this work, I'm going to help not only heal my ancestral line, but then go forward and help others, so that they can also heal what needs to be healed, and so when you do work in this way, it does have a more spiritual nature to it, but that's also affecting physical and emotional health as well, and the way I do it now, when I work with people, because the other thing is, we have to remember I'm not a South African Sangoma, meaning I'm not from there, I wasn't born there, that isn't technically my lineage or my ancestral lineage, however, for whatever reason, that was the place I needed to start my initiation on this path, the shamanic tradition, and so when people work with me now, I have to adapt it to what does it look like for people in the West, so some of the things that I work. With is right now I do a one to one personal, like a 90 day transformative journey process with people, where these are it's for people who really are dealing with aspects of their life that feel like they're not moving, they're stuck, they're not going anywhere, or they're facing a lot of challenge, and they can't figure out exactly why they can't get through it, or they feel that it's something about their family lineage that it's sort of plaguing them, or they've been having a series of dreams, or maybe some people have been sick in the family, and so it's brought up things, so this might be when someone wants to come work with me in that fashion, and doing a one to one personalized journey with me, it actually allows us to go a little deeper than if you were just coming in for acupuncture alone or just a treatment in the office. So, what we do then is I tailor it based on, you know, we have a discussion as to what's happening, and then just like the things that I do for myself, a lot of times I'm going to start giving them ritual prescriptions or ceremonial prescriptions. The whole point, when I work with people, especially with ancestral work, is that it's not about me healing or changing anything with the lineage, because it's really it has to come through that person. That's why they're probably being called to me, is that something their ancestor somewhere is sort of nudging them in the direction of, okay, we need this help, so here go to this person. So I make it very clear that you know doing the practices and trying to complete what we set up for that person is important, because ultimately it's you healing your ancestral line, or and not just yourself, but yeah, all those that come after you, because when you do the work now, you break a pattern, you start to break the pattern, and maybe it's not an, you know, you're not going to heal the entire lineage in in this one 90 day session, or maybe you're not the person that's going to heal the entire lineage in this lifetime, and that's okay. It's not supposed to be that way, but you're starting the process, so that whoever comes after you, it makes life a little easier, or it can start to continue that process going forward, and that's how that healing can look. So, you know, they might be given certain cleansing rituals again? I said I work a lot with water, so I find water to be very healing for people. I'll give them some herb preparations that I want them to utilize. There are some herbs that I think can really help to facilitate opening the heart or helping with grief, helping with anger. I'll have them again work, maybe with essential oils, and then we also have check-ins. We do, like, you know, weekly check-ins, and discuss, like, how they're doing, what's coming up, if there's resistance, if there's frustrations, if there's more ease, joy, they feel more calm. So we start to talk a little bit about what's showing up now, and I always bring it back to the body, because I do believe that that's one of the quickest ways to start to know where the shifts are happening for people, especially with this type of work, because I believe, obviously, we're carrying ancestral qi, so it's in our body, it's in our genetic code, so if you start to notice that you're not carrying around this pain in your shoulder. Oh, well, that tells me that we're starting to release something that's been held onto for a long time, that's probably not just theirs, it's probably older. So I help them make sense of those things as well, and then I teach them to forge a deeper bond and relationship with their ancestors,

Amie Penny Sayler:

so I have one very practical question, and then one that's a little more esoteric. One is, this 90 day program that you'll do with someone, is that available online, or is that only something that you do in your office?

Malinda DeMercurio:

We can do it either way. I've had people that we do it online who haven't lived in my area, and they've still been able to get profound shifts and changes. I've had people that have lived in my area, and usually we do a Zoom for the check-ins, but if we need to do additional work, like if they want to see me in acupuncture, whatever those are things that, yeah, we can incorporate, or I might set up, because I know they're in my area, so the beauty of it is I have flexibility to design it as I need to, wherever the person is, and in some cases, some people, even if they're a couple states over, they may say, if we plan that, or if we feel through that process, oh, you know, you're needing a deeper ceremonial experience, then having them come out to me. Sometimes those things can be arranged, or me go to them. These are all things that we can decide on. So it's really not limited. It's pretty flexible in terms of wherever you are, and then we just navigate the location. Don't let that be the barrier. Basically,

Amie Penny Sayler:

that's wonderful. And then I just want to take a minute to revisit something you said, which is about how you're not going to heal the entire lineage, every aspect. I want to dwell on that for a minute, because I think for some we can want to do that, and we can think that it's somehow failing if that kind of healing doesn't feel so broad or feel like it, it happened in every area, and I just love how you talked about, well, wait a minute, maybe you didn't get all the way there, but you, you loosened a knot a little bit, and then the next person who comes along can can untie it, and can you just kind of talk about how do you find peace within yourself? Of I've taken these four steps, and that's what I needed to do, and that's wonderful. And now someone else, now they have a different starting point. How do you find that acceptance of what you can do and limitation.

Malinda DeMercurio:

Yeah, I think that's a great question, because there is, again, and I might be the Western mindset about, you know, we want to start something and we want to complete it and we want to succeed, right? We want to feel productive, we want to feel like we accomplish something, and I do manage expectations, you know, with people, and I try to explain to them that, you know, your job isn't to necessarily heal the entire lineage, that's a big ask, and not many people can live up to that, because we're talking hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years, right, you know, 1000s of years of a lineage that you know goes all the way back, we don't even know, and so to think we're going to take on all of that and and heal it in 90 days or in two years or whatever, or in a lifetime is just really, it's not feasible, and I think it will, it puts pressure on somebody to have to, then it becomes about performance for some people, or fear of I'm not doing it correctly, I'm not doing it right, or I'm letting them down, and these are some things I've heard people bring up with me, and then we discuss that, and I also point out, oh, I wonder if this is a pattern within the lineage that's coming through, and that this sense of, like, oh, you know, we have to perform, or we have to get it right, or we, you know, that could be coming from somewhere else, that's actually, I mean, yes, it could be societal, it could be even our own experience, but I'm sure that's an ancestral pattern, right, for some people, and so when we start to point these things out, and I start to put it in that way for people, I can see a lot of them. There's a sense of relief, because now it's like, oh, oh, I don't have to do all of this on my own. It's not riding all on me, because I will explain that you're the one it starts with. Maybe it started with someone else in your lineage that you're not aware of, and that's why you're here today. So, that's what we have to remember is that we're the continuation of our ancestors, we aren't our ancestors, but we're the continuation, and we have the ability to create change and healing for those that come after us as well,

Amie Penny Sayler:

so I want to sort of end with there's a couple things you've brought up throughout, and to get your thoughts. So, one, you talked about your own ancestral altar, which sounds beautiful, and then you talked about, you know, you'll work with people on here's how to start to access your ancestors to have a relationship with them. Can you kind of talk through for a listener who's just starting to understand? Oh, wait, I can talk to my second great grandma, or, you know, what do you recommend?

Malinda DeMercurio:

So, again, I like to start simple for people, and I say easily enough, if you have a little space in your house that you can set up, and you can put simply a candle and a glass of water, or maybe if you want to burn a little incense, and you make that your little area that you go to, and you do that daily, or create a little practice where you're going to sit, and you're going to start to just speak to your ancestors. Now, if you have, I say, a little, a picture of an ancestor, great, put it on that altar, but again, I want to preface this, that you don't need all those things, because I know there are some people who are adopted, or some people who don't know, or have contact with their family, maybe, or don't know anything about those that came before them, and so that's why I say it doesn't matter, you don't need all of the things if you don't have them, start with the water, because the water is a conductor for other realms, it carries messaging, it's energetically conductive, so you know we have our water, it represents, you know, the mothers, the female principle, and we have the fire, the candle, and again, that's where the mass. Healing principle, but the two together is what creates the whole. So we're already just, and they're the most ancient of our ancestors, the elements. So we're starting there. We have fire and water, and you light them, you have your water, and then you just pray. And what I tell people is, ask your ancestors to start speaking to you in whatever way you're going to best understand, have them ask them to communicate with you in a way that you will understand. So that might be a dream, maybe a memory pops in, or maybe a song gets stuck in your head all of a sudden. It can come in different ways for people. Sometimes it's just a sense of I feel really peaceful, or I feel very grounded in this moment, that could mean their presence is there. So I tell people, you do this, and like anything you want to build a relationship, consistency. It's okay if you miss a day, it's okay, but I tell people the more you start getting into the habit of talking with them, telling them about your, your joys, your accomplishments, like you would a friend telling them what you're dealing with, what you're struggling with. Those are the things that helps to now we're waking up the energy of the ancestral line, because in many practices around the world, ancestral remembrance is big. It's still done in many cultures, it's not really maybe done as much in the West, so when you start to do that, you're activating that ancestral qi, you're activating the energy within the lineage, so if they've been forgotten, all of a sudden now it's like, oh, there's this remembrance coming through, the person is starting to remember them, and so then they can start to bring forward more of their messaging, their gifts, the healing, the insight. It's not, you know, ancestral healing isn't all about the trauma necessarily. I mean, yes, there is that aspect that we all carry in our lineage, but ultimately when we start to do the healing work behind that is all the gifts, all of, and we probably already have those that are coming through us in some way, but maybe we don't know it, or we haven't fully expressed it yet. So we have to remember that when we forge this new relationship with our ancestors, it's not just healing what the ancestors that maybe had the issues, had problems, made decisions that impacted the course of the lineage in more negative ways, but it's also getting those ancestors that have been waiting for someone to come forward and remember them to say, yeah, let me share that knowledge, that gift of, you know, whatever it is they had to bring that forward. So when you start to do that, it's very simple, and it's I tell people to be curious, to stay curious with it, to not have an expectation, but just to show up and just see what happens. Stay open to whatever happens.

Amie Penny Sayler:

That's so beautiful, and I love how much not pressure there is on that. It's not a, you know, you have to do this and then that, and then the third thing, or nothing will happen, you know. It really is just kind of appearing with an open heart.

Malinda DeMercurio:

Exactly,

Amie Penny Sayler:

do you had mentioned that you have an ancestral name? Yeah, I would love to hear about that in that story.

Malinda DeMercurio:

So, as a Sangoma, we are given what's called idlozi, which is the primary ancestral spirit that is working through us, and what I mean by that is that will be the spirit that is there with us, guiding us, helping us, if we're with our healing work, when we're working with people, and so you're given a name, and when I was at my teacher's altar, I remember I had to go give my respects to the altar and pray to the ancestors, and in that I started to hear a song in my head, and I thought, oh, that's interesting, and then it sort of morphed into this phrase that I heard, and I kept hearing Heart of the Ocean, Heart of the Ocean, and I didn't really think much about it, and then later on, day or so later, I mentioned it to another Sangoma, and she said, Oh, you need to go tell your teacher what you heard, so I went to her, and I told her, and then when she came back down, she said that was your ancestors giving you the name of the spirit that's coming forward, and so it was the translation in Zulu would be Inhliziyo Yolwandle, and it means heart of the ocean, so heart of the ocean, what that really means is that my spirit works to help people reconnect back to their hearts, to the emotional heart, to the things that maybe they've not expressed or that they've held onto and need to start to let go and be healed, basically. How to heal the heart, and by doing so, we help to return the children of the earth back to the mothers of the water. So it's a returning home, a homecoming for people back to the first mother, which are the waters. That's our first ancestral mother. We all come from the oceans, so. So I work, that's why a lot of my spirits are water spirits, but that's my primary spirit. So the title that I have, when you are Sangoma, my spirit is a grandmother spirit, it's a go-go, so go, go, um, how I'm a wands lay, and so I have a lot of that grandmother and mother energy, and when I do my work, and it does, it really does show up in my, my work. It's a very compassionate energy, and loving, and, and can be fierce sometimes. Sometimes the necessary energy for certain things, not necessarily towards people, but to help with clearing things, is that you know the ocean. Think about when the ocean is stirred up, how powerful that is, right? And then how calm it can be, so it's all of that embodied in this ancestral spirit, and I'm still learning more and more about it, because it does take time. I mean, this is the spirit I'll be working with for the rest of my life, and so this will evolve and grow and deepen over time as a well

Amie Penny Sayler:

that is just so compelling and beautiful, and thank you for sharing that with

Malinda DeMercurio:

us. Thank you.

Amie Penny Sayler:

Do you think there's anything you want to touch on that we didn't?

Malinda DeMercurio:

Maybe the only thing I'll add is that in this time, more than ever, given where we are, I feel that this returning back to remembering the grandmothers, the matriarchy, that energy is - we're primed for that right now. That's what's really pouring in to the earth. And so I don't find it odd that this would be the timing when I'm finished with this process, and I'm coming out, and I'm starting to talk about it, and that that's what my ancestral spirit is about the grandmothers and the messaging around that, and returning home, finding, you know, your homecoming back to your heart. So I look at it as I'm very much about the patterns and the signs, and so I just think that if someone is really feeling like they're being called to something more, but they're just not sure that finding wherever they are a good healer, whether it's acupuncture, massage, reiki, a shaman, just to really make sure that you listen to that, if that's what you're being drawn to, to not, because this is the time for us, it's we're primed to to be in this healing era.

Amie Penny Sayler:

I love ending on that fierce energy, because that's what I hear coming out is that grandmother and mother, who can you know? Okay, we're going to do this, and we're going to do this by taking care of ourselves, and that gives us the wherewithal to offer all of that love and healing and caring to others.

Malinda DeMercurio:

Exactly,

Amie Penny Sayler:

thank you so much, Malinda.

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Malinda DeMercurio

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